On humour and funny women
Penelope has a hypothesis. She says all funny women are gay.
Unless she has been using the word “gay” in its original sense, when it meant happy or jolly, I have to wonder about what company Penelope has been keeping and whether she really needs to get out of Madison more!
I happen to know some outrageously funny women, who are straight as a plumb line. Their sense of humour has a vast range, from filthy, sailor-like jokes to clean, literary puns, from terribly saucy double entendre to extremely literate, well-grounded irony. They have great comic timing and a deadpan delivery, which doubles the puissance of the punch line. Hell, they remember their punch lines! May be the common factor is their Britishness or their having been exposed to British humour from a very young age. So, there! An additional qualification to women being funny.
That said, humour does not translate across contexts or across some media. Perhaps this is why I find that when I write a post with a grand dose of irony, I get a lot of serious comments from those who, well, take it all very seriously.
Humour also does not translate across cultures which is why one finds that even British slapstick (”Monty Python” or “Mr Bean”) is subtler than American attempts at humour (such as “Everybody Loves Raymond”, a series which begs the question “Really? Everybody? Why? Are they that desperate?” because it is not remotely funny.) My bi-lingual jokes have to be held back at times, because my English-speaking friends would just not get them. Why waste a good punch line?
There is however some cracking humour on offer on the US version of Whose Line Is It Anyway? (The idea was originally British but I do not want to harp on and on about it, you know.) I prefer the episodes anchored by Drew Carey to those anchored by Clive Anderson. Colin Mochrie and Ryan Stiles are funny but hats must be taken off to Wayne Brady, who seems to specialise in making up songs on the spot. An exceptional mention must be made of Frasier, where the Crane brothers are modelled on a particular, repressive style of Britishness.
Humour in the workplace, which is the original intent of Penelope’s post, is a double-edged sword, one we must try and not fall on. She says try and be funny, even if you are not. Why? Because people like funny people and funny people get promoted more often.
She does have a point.
The trouble however is that one either is born with a sense of humour, an absurdity gene or shows clear signs of a SOH bypass. Like leadership, there are limits to how much of it can be taught. You disagree? Have you watched Borat’s attempts at learning to be funny the American way? Clearly not!
Being funny also is a sign of above-average intelligence. One can only make puns in real time if one’s mind moves laterally even amid a serious discussion. Such lateral thinking is also a sign that a person does not take himself too seriously and is likely to be a fun colleague to work with. Now who does not like a combination of intelligence and pleasant company?
But if you work with such a person, beware! During one of my summer jobs, I sat next to another summer intern, who made me laugh every 10 seconds. He kept a straight face and I got a reputation. I could tell you who he is but he is the CEO of a mega-TV network in India and it may not do well for his reputation now.
Back to the workplace.
More important than a sense of humour is an appropriate sense of humour. It does not matter how much your colleagues like your sense of humour, many of them are unlikely to find jokes about their wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends etc funny. The PC-police now dictates that jokes based on race, gender, colour and sexual orientation can now not be made without receiving a letter from HR. The upside? Sorting an inappropriate joke from an appropriate one requires even more intelligence in real time than the joke itself might do.
Coming back to why Penelope thinks all funny women are gay, I think it is a combination of things.
Even in the soi-disant developed countries, most people are societally conditioned to consider an extremely intelligent, outspoken and straight forward woman an aberration. A man’s sense of humour is prized, a woman’s sense of humour is seen as covering up for nervousness or some shortcoming. A man’s joke is received with guffaws, a woman’s joke is often derided. The more probable real reason is that people are threatened by a sharper intellect, especially if it comes wearing a skirt.
A woman, if seen as threatening, may find it hard to find a partner (yes, my funniest women friends are single too). And the speculation, that she therefore must be gay, gains ground. Why it happens I cannot say but it happens a lot.
This however does not mean that the funny women are always gay. The funniest British female comediennes - Victoria Wood, Dawn French, Jennifer Saunders, Shappi Khorsandi to name a few - are/ were all married to or partnered up with men. What is common amongst them is the combination of their razor-sharp smarts and their pat delivery.
Now with all that clear as mud, here is one for you to think about.
Behind every successful man is a woman, who rolls her eyes; and behind that woman is that man’s wife. And the man? He probably wishes he were gay!
If I met a sexy, rich woman who cpuld draw pleasure out of playing word games with me and cracking clever lines all the time, I would happily commit bigamy.
In my world, clever and funny women would be more common bi-and-bi, not single.
Thanks for the engayging post.
Comment by rambodoc — March 3, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
@ R-Doc: Are you possibly that successful man at the end of the post?
Comment by Shefaly — March 3, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
Well, the girls always look at the post and find a successful man behind it…
Comment by rambodoc — March 3, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
Okay, Shefaly, my token left field take
:
Penelope has a point, in a way… some of our best artists (whether comedians, artists, writers, etc) are often fighting personal demons. Being gay, thankfully, is not the stigma it once was, but surely it causes a lot of personal anguish for many. But the arts are a haven for many others who would be otherwise stigmatized or marginalized by society.
Personal anecdote: while working in psychiatry years ago, I had to convince a young man (bipolar as hell) to take his meds. He complained it stifled his creative urges. My job was to get him stabilized to the point of “normal” functioning….essentially saving his life, as I viewed it. Sometimes I think back on that young man, and so many others, who suffer so, and wonder what happened to them. Did we lose a great writer? Did mankind lose a Van Gogh? A gifted musician or poet? What if Shelley had to take antidepressants?
On a lighter note, funny people, such as a dear colleague, keep me in stitches, but I know he suffers a lot of personal physical pain. Humour is how he copes. Yours,
Wacky Jackie
Comment by Jackie — March 3, 2008 @ 4:43 pm
This has to be the mother of all generalizations
Something like- All funny men are heterosexual. What has funniness got to do with a person’s sexual orientation? I find it difficult to read posts/articles that use the word “gay” very casually.
On another note, homosexuals will be pleased- all funny people are gay! Wow!
Finally we can talk about coming out of the closet by just carrying around a laugh-o-meter.
Comment by Ruhi — March 3, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
Shefaly, not sure if you’ve read this article by Vanity Fair called “Who Says Women Aren’t Funny?”
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/04/funnygirls200804?currentPage=2
It’s a nice read and tries to explain why we see more women comedians these days and why, traditionally, men have mostly held these jobs. Women, find it more difficult to laugh at their shortcomings, compared to men. Plus, being pretty sells. Hence, the influx of women in comedy shows. And no, most of them are not gay, even though this is what Penelope might want to think.
Comment by Ruhi — March 3, 2008 @ 9:25 pm
@ R-Doc: You do manage to make things sound very funny!
@ Jackie: Thanks. I suppose Penelope may have a point in a ‘tears of the clown’ sort of way but her choice of words is intendedly or otherwise controversial. I believe that if someone claims to be an authority on a subject and has a wide readership, there is a burden of responsibility - even when we blog, it remains our responsibility not to mislead or make random arguments to make our point - in being well-researched. If you follow the link to her blog, you will see a post today on how women should deal with the ticking biological clock, which is causing many of her readers to froth at the mouth. Don’t get me wrong, I know Penelope and like her for calling a spade a shovel but sometimes only she knows the reason behind her logical leaps…
@ Ruhi: This has really upset you, hasn’t it?
I had not read the article so thanks for the link. Indeed women are breaking - slowly but surely - into many areas hitherto seen as the male preserve including but not limited to comedy, being chefs, being lawyers/ engineers/ doctors.
As for whether and why women find it difficult to laugh at their shortcomings, here is my hypothesis: first, many others are already noticing - and amplifying - the shortcomings; second, with so many already deprecating her and her work, a woman does not have much scope left for self-deprecation.
I think you may want to look up the comediennes whose names I list. Lets just say ‘pretty’ might be used to describe Shappi Khorsandi but not the others, unless we are being very generous. They are excellent comediennes nonetheless - straight, plain and seam-splitting funny!
Comment by Shefaly — March 3, 2008 @ 9:55 pm
RE: R-doc: he is funny as hell. Gay? Nah. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that
to quote Seinfeld.
Others: you might be interested to know that I first became ‘acquainted’ with him on a (medical) humor list. Another listmember, who I highly respect raved about his writing, so I visited my first blog ever, and hooked ever since.
He has a lot of fans, but don’t tell him, lest his head gets more swollen than it all ready is
Comment by Jackie — March 4, 2008 @ 12:37 am
playing devils advocate here; perhaps penelope meant that all gay women were funny (!?)
Comment by mytrampoline — March 4, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
About 11 years ago I saw my first female stand-up. (Until then, it was pretty much 100% male, in my experience at least.) It was, I’m sad to say, not a good experience. Ahead of a top (male) comedian’s act, three lesser-known comics presented their warm-up pieces: two men, and the woman. The men were okay, but the woman decidedly had an off day. Her timing was out of phase and she got increasingly bitter in her one-liners as the audience failed to respond. There were several lines that were hilarious when we recalled them later, but at the time, somehow with a wilting audience, she just was unable to click.
Since then, in all my forays into comic dens in various cities, I’ve noted also that the men overwhelmingly outnumber the women. Not to say that the men were funnier - just that there were more of them, so the number of ‘good’ male comedians tended to exceed that of ‘good’ female ones.
Comment by Fëanor — March 4, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
@ Jackie: I could not agree more about R-Doc! He is gay in the original sense of the word, I sense
@ Mytrampoline: Welcome to my blog and thanks for your note.
Hmm.. I tried to re-read Penelope’s post and I think she meant all funny women are gay and no commutativity was implied.
And empirically, in my experience, I would say that is not entirely true either. Some could be really sullen, gloomy and angry, which I can understand since the world is not exactly civilised towards people it perceives as being different.
@ Feanor: Thanks for your note.
Yes, larger numbers could contribute to the greater catchment for better male stand-ups but not everyone is Billy Connolly! In fact I find Dara O Briain and many others who routinely appear on Simon Astell’s programme (you can tell I am tired if I cannot even recall the names of the weekday funnies, sorry!) quite boring and unimaginative. Matt Lucas is funny but he relies on a script so we need to think of the writers and not him. Amongst unscripted comedians, I think Paul Merton and Ian Hislop very good but their humour is on a different plane altogether. Ok, I am beginning to realise how much comedy I really consume…
By the way, if you have not seen Shappi Khorsandi, I would recommend her highly. I would submit in that context that the content of stand-up comediennes’ shows is quite heavy.
Comment by Shefaly — March 4, 2008 @ 7:39 pm
@Shefaly
Yes, it did bother me quite a bit.
Anything to do with women and false assumptions matter to me. And it’s quite saddening when another member from the same gender makes such generalizations. Can we blame men then?
And you’re right about the deprecation part. Not only do other men deprecate women, but also women do it to each other. I come across “cat fights” so often. Where is the time left to be funny then? I like the way men give each other two punches and forget about everything. Women hold on to everything much longer. I’ve been collecting lots of old ads that are quite distasteful and really insulting.
Comment by Ruhi — March 5, 2008 @ 6:38 am
Are there women who are genuinely funny - or unafraid to express it? Some cultural repression might be at work here since I keep finding women who take themselves and the world too seriously. While some propriety may be observed, the point of a sense of humour is to lighten up and not take the world as seriously, right? I wonder who dictated that A Lady Does Not Laugh.
Comment by ideasmith — March 5, 2008 @ 10:19 am
@ Ruhi: I am glad this infuriates you so much! I like to demolish such motherhood-and-apple-pie style arguments with data but in truly absurd cases, data may be hard to find.
I do find it funny though that you say that “…Women hold on to everything much longer…” and quickly follow it up with “…I’ve been collecting lots of old ads that are quite distasteful and really insulting…“.
Let go, Ruhi, let go!
Now that you are moving, it is a good time to sort and recycle, donate and trash.
@ IdeaSmith: Welcome to my blog and thanks for your note!
I cannot disagree with your point about people taking themselves too seriously. But don’t you think that the double standards at work may force women do choose to be this way? Men are ‘funny ha-ha’, women are ‘funny peculiar’; men have a ‘great sense of humour’, women are ‘girlie’ and ‘frivolous’. One truly has not to give a monkey’s about what others think and be truly liberated, before all anger can be dissipated. What do you think? I would go a step further and say that women are afraid to offend and most comedy, alas, is bound to offend someone.
As for who dictated ‘A Lady Does Not Laugh’, I submit it would be the same person who thinks that women go to the loo to powder their noses or women go to the loo because they love to spend their pennies (at Charing Cross station, it is 20p and not 1p anymore!), and that men sweat while women glow.
Comment by Shefaly — March 5, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Goodness, it is a testament to this culture that I don’t even think twice about a comedian’s sex. You’re good or you ain’t. We used to go to comedy shows in the city. Kathy Griffin, Ellen Degeneres, and the Korean lady (can’t think of her name right now, sorry) come to mind quickly, not to mention other comediennes working on TV shows, writing, etc.
Revisiting this blog’s original topic, it is _unfair_ to say funny women are gay, as you reported, Shefaly. In fact, the idea is silly and anachronistic. Being funny or having a humourous disposition is a matter of personality or life-outlook style. I don’t see it as having a sexual orientation dimension.
Comment by Jackie — March 5, 2008 @ 9:14 pm