Missing Indian girl-children…
Indian women from the UK are reportedly travelling to India now in order to get gender determination tests on the sly and to terminate female foetuses. Bloody marvellous, this perverse application of outsourcing to India!
The optimist in me wants to find an upside. Here is what I think: if we keep killing female foetuses at this rate, soon there will be nobody left to bear male offspring either.
This must be a good thing, no?
On reflection, not really.
Killing female foetuses is not only a social evil but an ugliest attack on the humanity and life. Religions failed to prevent it. Regulations failed to prevent it. Poverty and economic burden has aggravated and forced it. It’s not simply a gender issue. Goodness and respect for life has to arise and live in oneself. In this direction, we need to do a lot of work. Facilitate it. Impose less. Borrowed religions, imposed regulations are only of peripheral help.
Comment by sulochanosho — December 3, 2007 @ 10:43 am
//The optimist in me wants to find an upside. Here is what I think: if we keep killing female foetuses at this rate, soon there will be nobody left to bear male offspring either.// Well said. It is so depressing. The British govt is very particular about their citizens.The yet to be born females are also their citizens. Can’t they do something about it?
Comment by pr3rna — December 3, 2007 @ 11:01 am
@ Sulochanosho: Thanks for your note. I agree it is not a simple problem. For my part, I am glad my Indian parents chose to have me, bring me up and educate me.
A few years ago, I wrote a letter to the FT where I made the following point:
“Income and urbanisation on their own cannot challenge well-entrenched social practices and norms, such as dowry. Conservatively speaking, more than half of my classmates from my business school and my engineering school in India - all urban, educated and affluent professionals - got married in arranged marriages, where typically parents negotiate the size of the dowry.
Notwithstanding the fact that many of the males matching this profile choose to marry urban, educated, professional women, with “economic value”, parental involvement means that the obedient Indian sons stay out of the negotiation on dowry. This implies a double-whammy for the parents of these professional girls: they spend once to educate their girl children, as the Indian middle class does, and then again to marry them off. That is not all; if you wonder why the females-per-thousand-males rate is falling, there are dowry deaths for inadequate dowry or failure to produce a family heir, which make a contribution, albeit small. Is there any surprise that the educated, affluent middle class knows what fate awaits it, and indeed its daughters, and chooses not to produce a girl child into this cycle of misery?”
It sort of sums up the situation but above all, we need to learn to value human life …
@ Prerna: Thanks. Asian communities famously clam up and close ranks when dubious things such as ‘honour killings’ are being investigated. It is in practice very difficult to make any dent in such problems. As Sulochanosho suggests, this is not a simple issue and I think it needs a sea-change in our attitudes before anything can be done about it.
Comment by Shefaly — December 3, 2007 @ 11:21 am
So it’s happening in Britain too huh. It’s been happening in Canada for sometime so I guess it’s happening wherever there are Indians. Evil is the only word for it.
Comment by Nita — December 3, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Indians seem to be a misogynist class of humans. They, therefore, are spreading this virus wherever they go. I have no doubt that the day will come when the girl child will be valued by the same wretches when the sex-ratio gets altered severely. I believe it is already happening, or beginning to happen, in Vietnam.
Comment by rambodoc — December 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
@Rambodoc and all: yes, last figure I remember, the ratio of boys to girls born is 122 to 100 in Viet Nam. Viet Nam has a two child policy. Don’t forget China (One child policy, I believe). Until the tides turn (less dependence on agricultural way of life, increased education, affluence, women’s rights, dowries, etc) the situation with aborted or abandoned female children will continue to worsen. For the foreseeable future, we will also see concommitant human trafficking to meet the demand for girls/women to meet the needs of these countries as well.
Comment by Jackie — December 3, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Folks: Thanks for all thoughts and notes. I am jet-lagged and in Boston. I shall get to all these points and an interesting further-reading tomorrow on what happens when girls start dwindling (in India, Vietnamese appear more sensible than we are…)…
Comment by Shefaly — December 4, 2007 @ 2:29 am
sad, sad… even sadder is that the lady doctor caught in the BBC spycam operation is someone working with the Government to prevent foeticide.
at the rate that they are going in states like Punjab and Haryana (sex ratio in Pujab is around 793 girls to every 1000 males) we will soon be an endangered minority.
what do you call it when 60 million females go missing in Asia ?
http://calamur.org/gargi/2005/10/17/how-to-name-it/
Comment by harini calamur — December 5, 2007 @ 5:55 am
Not so in the families related to Dept of Atomic Energy in India.Many of the marriages I know of have been love marriages and intercaste and interstate and happily no such malpractice has been reported. Has the Dept unconsciously inculcated better values in their staff ? I do not know. The female infanticides are agriculture and land-related and mainly reported from certain states only. I do not claim to know much about it but do feel sorry at the state of affairs in this regard.
Comment by gopal — December 5, 2007 @ 9:40 am
Folks:
Thanks for your thoughts.
I guess the crux of the matter is this:
If one of us were in a position, where we knew that someone was going to abort her female foetus through such means, what would we do?
Would we report them?
Would we sever our relationship with them? If so, would we let them know why?
If we would do nothing, why not? What good is intent and principled outrage if it cannot make a jot of difference?
Where is the line we draw in sand to stay behind?
Thanks.
Comment by Shefaly — December 5, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Well, to answer your questions, Shefaly (from a medical POV):
We should counsel patients wanting to abort females, but cultures/beliefs will likely trump any advice. Still, abortion is a legal, and I don’t know how to regulate this. Too difficult, and not realistic with our (medical) systems.
Reporting these patients is not the right tactic, either… what would be the punishment? Is the father liable? R-doc had a post not long ago about penalties selling blood and some thoughtful comments came up regarding sale of blood and organs.
Sorry, but I do not think regulating this will make one whit of difference - now, changing attitudes, improving women’s rights…. I do believe these will occur, and in our lifetimes, girl babies will not be seen as a liability, as in less-developed cultures.
Comment by Jackie — December 5, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
Shefaly, you are shockinng me so much that I have a spelliggn bee under my bonnet!
Report someone? Aargh!
Look, this may be a despicable and bleak outlook, morally and socially speaking, on the part of someone, but I don’t think it should be an illegal one. It is a personal choice, and it includes the choice to be stupid, narrow and hate-worthy. I certainly would not keep any significant personal relationship with such a person. Professional, of course, maybe. I wouldn’t end up as the partner of such a person (I wouldn’t trust the limit of his or her bigotry).
Outrage is useless unless it makes a difference in your personal choices and decisions.
Comment by rambodoc — December 6, 2007 @ 12:25 am
[...] has written about this on her blog, calling it very aptly “a perverse application of outsourcing to India.” [...]
Pingback by Prominent doctor trapped in sex determination sting by the BBC « A wide angle view of India — December 6, 2007 @ 5:02 am
@shefaly
“If one of us were in a position, where we knew that someone was going to abort her female foetus through such means, what would we do?”
That is really the crux of the issue as far as Govt. policy is concerned. As long as citizens and society do not play their role and cooperate in implementing a law, the law becomes ineffectual. Especially in a country like India, which doesn’t have the necessary capability to police complicated matters like female foeticide.
India has laws against female foeticide, but they don’t seem to be a product of popular outrage. They are the product of the elite’s outrage. Unless this dichotomy in India’s democracy is resolved, female foeticide will be unbridled.
Comment by anand — December 6, 2007 @ 5:38 am
@ Jackie: Thanks. I do however think your point is not a ‘medical’ but an ‘ethical’ point of view. Medically there is nothing wrong with MTP but ethical grounds are hazier sometimes even in regular abortions.
I did not suggest ‘regulation’; I merely asked what individuals like us would do, if we knew somebody was going to abort a female foetus by bypassing local laws.
@ Rambodoc: So you have answered my question. You would not keep a personal connection with such a person.
But I disagree that outrage is useless unless it affects personal choices. I take it to mean you are saying outrage does not drive social change. It is that difference of effect that I disagree with.
However knowing when to stop is an issue with both social liberals and social conservatives, who are outraged by different things, but outraged nonetheless.
BTW shall I crush that bee for you? I am known to crush bugs with bare hands, when I have had enough of them (bugs, not hands)!
@ Anand: Welcome to the blog and thanks for your views.
Asking citizens to rat on fellow citizens should really never be the basis of effective implementation of any policy, leave alone on female foeticide. In addition, social change cannot be brought by diktat, can it? Otherwise dowry would have ceased to exist long ago! And women would have equal representation and equal pay at the workplace. Right?
Social change is effected, I believe, one person at a time. And that is where individual indignation plays a part. My hope is that it influences our own choices first, and then if we can, we pass on some of that thought process to others and so on.
But you make a great and subtle distinction about whose outrage makes a difference. Thanks for providing that food for thought.
Comment by Shefaly — December 6, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Agree with you. If there are too many males and not enough females, sooner or later, there’s going to be generation problem. Importing females or exporting males?
Killing babies just because the babies are females are cruel. Poor families kill females because traditionally the brides’ families have to pay dowry. So? Just abolish dowry! Marriage is a 2 way relationship, not selling a person.
Comment by MJ — December 6, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
I think Anand made a very telling point. All these types of laws are made by those who think they can think for the man on the street. They know better than us.
What you said, Shefaly, is what I meant in a way. Outrage at what is happening should guide your personal choices. If it doesn’t, one is drowned dead in hypocrisy. Imagine if I am outraged at racism but wouldn’t employ a black* or white man in my office… wouldn’t you call it hypocrisy?
*I disregard the politically correct terminology with contempt.
Lastly, I meant a co-investor when I used the word ‘partner’ because I prefaced it with the word ‘professionally’. Marriage with such a person? If I want to torture myself endlessly because of pathological self-hate (a whaddyacallit: overkill?), I would marry such a person. Otherwise, won’t even think for a second about it.
Comment by rambodoc — December 6, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Female foeticide turns my stomach. I don’t think I could keep someone as a friend who killed for that reason.
Comment by Paul — December 6, 2007 @ 3:56 pm
I was trying to get the word that can apply to something like ‘pathological self-hatred’: a redundancy? You know of the right word?
Comment by rambodoc — December 6, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
@ MJ: Welcome to my blog and thanks for your views. Imagine, if everyone practised female foeticide. Where will we import from/ export to?
Dowry has been illegal in India for years; you could be fooled into believing the contrary, that it is almost sanctioned as a necessity by law, if you attended Indian weddings, particularly in the North.
@ Paul: Thanks. I do not know anybody who has made this choice, so my own stance will be hypothetical at this point. But if I were to extrapolate from my other difficult, almost anti-social stances on people’s hypocrisy, I would drop such a person like a hot potato too. Although come to think about it, if this is a time that a female friend needs moral support to deal with the trauma, it is going to be one hell of a choice!
@ Rambodoc: My host in Boston is a psychiatrist (serious!). I shall ask him if there is a term for pathological self-hatred… I am sure he will know.
As for marrying such a person, well, you may not find out about these things till push comes to shove. How is it that some women end up with wife-beaters? They do not all come wearing stringy vests, with bad breath and scruffy beards, do they? Most people have abundant practice in mouthing liberal clichés while behaving like Neanderthals. Tricky one, isn’t it?
Comment by Shefaly — December 6, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
hey there shefaly
ur on the dashboard !
i have taken a pic if u wanna save it for memory
that was a nice reflection
the fact that wars that brought death to the male population and kept the averse ratio in check have long but gone will never enter these peoples heads !
Comment by Prax — December 6, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Shefaly, I meant a word (like Sponerism) that can be used for a terminology like ‘pathological self-hatred’.
After all, by definition, implication and observation, self hatred is pathological. The adjective for ’self hatred’ is a redundancy. I was wondering what term covers this. Capisce?
Comment by rambodoc — December 6, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
@ Prax: Thanks
I noticed Nita and Ruhi were also on the dashboard today.
That is a very good point about the role of wars. May be we should continue to have wars to keep the gender-ratio in balance? :-/
@ Rambodoc: Capisco!
I cannot think of any word right now - my head is swimming with data for a client project which is keeping me busy till late tonight…
Comment by Shefaly — December 6, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Oops, Spoonerism. I am getting old. I thought I saw three ‘o’s and deleted one. I found one less after sending the comment.
Comment by rambodoc — December 6, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
I can’t imagine, as a woman, terminating a pregnancy only because the fetus is female. It seems like the worst form of self-hatred. No one on the planet is free until we move past this kind of wrong thinking.
Comment by mariacristina — December 6, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
i just stated fact for why the male child was considered dearer especially in border areas
like rajasthan and punjab
on wars maybe we may need one in a few yrs
the way world population is growing in comparison food stock we will have wars over food and later water
Comment by Prax — December 7, 2007 @ 7:18 am
@rambodoc: You looking for the word tautology?
Comment by anand — December 7, 2007 @ 7:41 am
Anand: not exactly, though it comes close. More like a redundancy. Thanks.
Comment by rambodoc — December 7, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
@Shefaly: Yeah, it would be a hell of a choice. It’s just that I strongly suspect I couldn’t respect someone who did such a thing well enough to be of much help to them through the trauma of it. I don’t care for that conclusion, but it’s as near as I can come to knowing how I’d feel and behave in those circumstances.
Comment by Paul — December 7, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
If the trend continues India will have to start enacting social changes or suffer from a decrease in status on the world stage. It is a shame that females are not appreciated, but this has happened in the past, in China for instance, and will probably happen again in the future. You would think that we would be past things like this, but the old desires are hard to overcome.
Comment by loopyloo350 — December 7, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
I wonder why did it come out now? Let me tell you a true story here. Vikram Chatwal’s wife, Priya Sachdev was pregnant a few months before (can’t remember the calendar). Delhi Times, the knowledgeable supplement of TOI did a front page story of Priya’s pregnancy and how Vikram Chatwal, the rich Sardar casanova boy, now married and soon to be father is floating up because of the good news.
The family is too excited with the news and she is soon to give birth to a girl child [sic]. I was overwhelmed. This was a front-page story of few of those star-studded weddings finally getting into familyhood. How did she come to know of the girl child? And TOI had no qualms about publishing this!
Second story: A few days old girl child was found floating in a Punjab river. The parents had placed the baby well and dumped her in the river a la Kunti. This story was published in Amar Ujala and Punjab Kesari but never made more than a 100 words in HT, TOI. Well, a little more than a hundred words in Chandigarh edition of Indian Express. Strange no!
But… why does the psycho inside my head says that we may go the gorilla way if all the female foetuses. Incest is a well known practice throughout primates. Think about that.
Comment by Kirit — December 10, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
A minor correction. The last but one sentence should read in the end like this - if all the female foetuses were killed.
Comment by Kirit — December 10, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
@ Loopyloo350: Thanks for your note. I hope that day when we have to learn our lesson comes soon. It can never be soon enough, really.
@ Kirit: Thanks for your note. As a (former) journalist, why do you think a micro-famous person gets publicity which flaunts their choosing to do something illegal while a nameless left-for-dead person gets no coverage?
Comment by Shefaly — December 11, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
At the rate indians are going to kill the female foetuses, men will be left with no brides and die brideless. Is this not a topic to be concerned about? As for dowry. I know it is slowly changing. My mothers brother got married to someone in india and took no dowry from their parents. Because honestly, that tradition is phased out. My wedding, my husband didnt take a dime. I live in canada, and yes some backwards fools who think girls are burdens ruin this race, god cant even forgive such atrocities against females.Sex selection abortion in my family doesnt exist, but those who do it are really just giving in to what society around them are doing. Its time india starts moving with the times, and not just india, any indian who thinks sex selection abortion because of dowry is a way to abort.I really pray to god, this disgusting custom ends one day and the figures of killing girls is erradicated.
Comment by sonikuri — February 18, 2008 @ 8:00 am
in my opinion girls are the best crrature is this world bcause they give birth to man.
How can we do this cruel act of killing foetus just bcoz they are girls.But telling you one thing very frankly now a days this tradition is changing: People in India just want one or two childern whether ist a girl or boy. There are some backward persons who always look for son. Myself getting a girl child very soon and i am very happy bcoz i dont feel my daughter as a burden on me as i am also a female.
Comment by shiveta — April 2, 2008 @ 11:42 am